Friday, April 18, 2008

A COMMENT I HAVE TO ANSWER

Here is the comment:

fallout11 has left a new comment on your post "GET YOUR ASS OUT OF TOWN":

I do not necessarily think that rural areas will necessarily be any better off.

[Michael sez: I DO!]

When the Soviet Union collapsed, people in the countryside had it the worst, and first.

[Was it because the collectivist mind of Russia had made off with their food because they wanted to keep Moscow and some other big cities supplied? Was it because they didn't have a 2nd Amendment and the idea that they could not be persecuted for the sins of their leaders? Rememeber, in Marxist theory the future belonged to technicians, not the peasants who labored in the fields and grew the food. Marx and Stalin considered farmers and peasants to be beneath their dignity. They would all be replaced by highly technical machinenry run by expertly trained technicians. When the food ran out in the cities the government allowed "capitalism" to come into food production and food started to appear in the market place. The onus of being a farmer and growning food was removed.]

Jobs dissappeared,

[They never had many jobs out in the country side to begin with.]

services were discontinued,

[Services for what? The upholding of the local Comissar's hold on the populace?]

trucks quit coming,

[They didn't have many trucks. They didn't have mnany roads. They had one helluva hard time even geting their stuff out of the fields.]

infrastructure collapsed,

[What infrastructure? That was their problem to begin with, they had no decent infrastructure. You didn't pull out on a Russian Interstate and head for market. It simply didn't exist. It still doesn't.]

government fell apart,

[Rotted away from the inside. The system wasn't going to work and the government couldn't afford to subsidize the damn thing anymore. They couldn't afford to pay secret police and army personel to hold the thing together any longer.]

and people left in droves,

[Oh bullshit. There were no droves of people in the countryside. If you lived in the country you got out as soon as possible. It was an old story in Russia. Being kept on the farm was the kiss of death.]

moved to the cities for better opportunities.

[Moved to the cities and worked for the Russian mafia! I probably would have done the same thing. It was a way out of the cesspool.]

FerFAL's posts on the situation in Argentina (1999-2003) remain forefront in my mind, because that is exactly what you will see here first and foremost as the slow decent into chaos continues.

[Well, we are agreed that the descent into chaos is on the way. I intend to plug any holes with 00 Buck on my road. I will have help doing this. And let the bodies lay to warn those who come behind what lies in store for them. Even a stupid tracker can read sign like that!]

The same occurred in other nations facing a severe downturn/early collapse in recent years (Soviet Union, Liberia, South Africa, North Ireland, etc), isolated farms and settlements were the worst off, lawlessness came to these areas hardest and soonest, and as with the failing years of the Roman empire (see Tainter, Diamond, Catton), citizenry actually moved into the burbs and cities, not out of them, for security and resources. The rural areas and small towns were hardest hit, even in areas with no violence.

[Were these areas filled with people preparing for the approaching calamity? Were they looking out for each other and maintaining good armaments? Did they have a history of resisting the forces of oppression? In this country the cities will be hit first and hardest. The rioters will destroy what civilization is there. Only after the destruction of the cities will the Freebooters come out into the countryside and start looking for food and shelter and water and other neat things.


During Argentina’s economic crisis (1999-2003), the rural hinterlands were the most dangerous places to live.
http://www.buildanark.net/surv.....al1_1.html
http://www.buildanark.net/survival_stories.html

The same applies in Sierra Leone to this day. You also see this situation playing out in South Africa presently, isolated farms and homesteads are being targeted.
http://www.iss.co.za/PUBS/OTHE...../Chap4.pdf

Even in first world countries (UK) in non-crisis situations , you see the same:
Rural crime breeds ’siege mentality’
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/815328.stm

Isolated farm = soft target

[We aren't isolated. We are just out here where no one wants to live. Those other countries have gun control laws and severe penalites, especially the UK. But we have our wives and children out here and we love them. We aim to protect them so help us God. I can see where an isolated farm might be a soft target. But I can also see where a group might pay a terrible price for thinking such a thing. A good shot with a 30-06 can do a lot of damage at a distance and a shotgun can take care of close in work. Did you ever see the Gadsden Flag from the Revolutionary War? It has a coiled Rattlesnake with the words "DONT TREAD ON ME" written on it. I have one of those flags. Ain't never flown it but I damn sure can.

And another little tidbit on your cities. I care less what happens to cities. I honestly don't give a shit. I hate them. I hate their voting ability. I hate their laws and their regulations and their institutions. They have interfered with my life and my freedom. I look upon them as asylums for the insane. Has this bummed you out enough? May they rot in hell.]


Live on and stay alive. It's the most positive thing you can do!

Michael

mboone@rtccom.net

7 comments:

Dragon said...

I'm glad you took this on. I was wrestling with how to word my retort, when You had beaten me to the punch. To those who think rural america is easy pickin's will be disabused of that idea, quickly and forcefully. To hear some of these people talk. Its a wonder anyone ever survived without electricity. I am almost thoroughly convinced that few folks who grew up in towns or cities have what it takes for rural living. Maybe they would be better served living in a fema camp. But, what then will they do when those growing bushvilles tax the food bank and welfare systems to the breaking point?
Once I roll out of this town I'm in, I may come back to visit. Then again I probably won't.

gott_cha said...

People think country folk are ignorant....here in the south we have NuYokers coming here all the time trying to "educate" us and show us how its done. They assume that we are all a bunch of low IQ mouth breathers,...that is until they need our help.
Hey,..I can plant just as much corn on a crooked row as a straight one.
I laugh my ass off each time they come and want to fish...they show up with the newest latest fishing gadgets and are amazed when the fish dont jump in their boat,...we will cook a goat or ground hog and they eat like no tommorow untill they learn what it is.
Had to laugh last fall when a neighbor(ex-city) tried to skin a buck.....bunch of pansies I teel ya,..thought he was gonna puke,..kept saying "I dont see how youse guys can do this....eeewwww!"

Man o man,..they are lost and will be easy pickings when they are stranded in wallyworld parking lots,.......I pity the fools

The Urban Survivalist said...

The cities will be a lot easier to control than the countryside. Rioters aren't an organized mass of people that scour the city like army ants systematically stripping everyone and everything of their resources. They tend to be an organized mass that the authorities have trouble controlling who stay in areas that are easy pickings (ie around stores). I'd be more worried about the well organized groups that systematically hit private residences looking for loot. With people like that roaming around I'd feel much safer in a place where I know my neighbors and there are a few dozen of them within shouting distance of my front door. There's a lot to be said for strength in numbers. Don't think for a second that you won't have to explain those bodies when you do successfully defend yourself a couple of times out in the country. I have a weird feeling that it'll attract a lot of unwanted attention from the authorities.

I grew up in rural IL. My family on my mom's side are still farmers out there. I know all about the hate that country boys tend to have for city boys. I agree that there are a lot of stupid city boys out there. I have to deal with them every day. There are a lot of stupid country boys out there, too, though. Don't think that all of your neighbors will have your best interests in mind when they get the idea that they can take advantage of a situation. Oh and while FEMA is carting everyone off to camps they'll be "confiscating critical resources" in the country to keep all of those people fed.

fallout11 said...

Documented history is what you are arguing with here Staying Alive, not one man's opinion. This isn't a "city boy" versus "country boy" issue, this is a "where will things be better" issue. History shows they were better near the urban centers.

It's not a question of being well armed. The people in South Africa, Iraq, and Sierra Leone are better armed than the average American, every 12 year old has a fully auto capable AK and knows how to use it. Some even have antitank weapons. Didn't keep small villages and isolated farmstead from quickly descending into hell on earth. In the cities, they still had running water, jobs, and trucks bringing in food.

Ferfal describes in great detail how gangs would roam around the countryside in Argentina, outside of the urban enclaves that still had halfway function blackmarket and barter economies, and would prey on the easy pickings. Home invasions, armed robbery, and kidnapping, rape and murder.
They would take their time with the farmers and homesteaders, since no one was around to come to their head, and no one lived close enough to even hear the screams. They would scout them out, watch and wait, and make their move when they wanted, almost at their leisure.
Go read the links.

Finally, check out Dmitry Orlov's excellent writings on the collapse of the Soviet Union. He lived through it, and now lectures here on how we're not as well equipped to handle collapse as they were. Has a new book on the subject about to come out.

Staying Alive said...

The Urban Survivalist said: The cities will be a lot easier to control than the countryside.

Michael sez: You damn right! The city people are like rats in a maze. They're like fish in a barrel. They will be easier to control alright. And they will do what they are told to do or they will get a bullet.

The cities will be controlled by the groups that run them and it won't be the Democrats or the Republicans. It will be by gangs. And you will either belong to a gang or you will serve a gang.

The past is prologue, as the saying goes. In this case it will be the extinction of the cities. They are too big. They have too many people. The world has never seen anything as big as Nu Yawk Sity or L.A. go wild. How many days supply of food do you thinkg Nu Yawk Sity has? 2? Maybe 3? In a very short period of time there is going to be big trouble as masses of people, people who don't even talk to each other, try to get the hell outta Dodge.

Save the time and energy and leave now. Avoid the riotous rush.

Michael

Dragon said...

"Documented History" OK Son, Here Ya go. I was a leetle tyke when MLK got shot in the "60's". It was a very confusing time for me as 4 of my adult males relatives stood loading guns in the living room while the TV and radio reported ,riots and looting and mayhem. It sounded like the end of the world. A car was on its roof and burning at then end of my block. A corner store was looted just doors down from where we lived. I was admonished to stay away from the windows several times as things progressed. One thing that stands out after all these years is that the adults were loudly wondering where the police had gotten to, as NONE were in evidence. My Pap (my Dads father) showed up with a stake bed truck and we were loaded into it for a trip to the farm. When we got near any rioters and looters we children were advised to stay down while the adults brandished a motley collection of firearms. We were not challenged in the least and made it to the farm without incident. That farm became a haven for any who showed up. no one was turned away regardless of color as Pap was color blind. The kitchen of that old place was majical that day as the smells of good cooking wafted to where we children were playing. That farm became our refuge , a place where normality reigned. Our minister held services in the stable that Sunday and we had a big supper after that. At the highest point we had about 50 or so folks staying with us. Some camped in cars and tents. We had no shortage of supplies as folks brought lots with them and a cow was killed and butchered the first day.
What strikes me most about that time was, folks didn't have a plan. They got together and after about 5 minutes , there it was, and we bugged out. No bad actors came anywhere near that farm. If they had , well they wouldn't have left in good condition.
Shortly after that, My Father decided to move back to the country. It didn't matter how far he had to drive for work after that. In retrospect, Other places had it worse in those days, Entire neighborhoods burned. Ours was pretty much untouched. But what happened was unheard of in those days, Unthinkable even.

fallout11 said...

Follow-up:
Courtesy of The Rural Blog and USA Today, rural areas are already falling apart.